Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    If the persistence conditions of the underlying substance... — Carmelics
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→Questions 1 and 2 about personal identity are equivalent.

    If the persistence conditions of the underlying substance (the animal) differ from the conditions of personhood, then what persists and what makes something the same person come apart.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Animals persist through physical continuity of matter and biological processes, but persons persist through psychological continuity of memory and identity.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.A human can survive brain transplant (following psychology) while the original animal body ceases to exist, showing persistence conditions genuinely diverge.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If two conditions can come apart in conceivable scenarios, they cannot both be constitutive of the same underlying unity, so they must track different entities.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Psychological continuity depends on the animal's brain; they don't truly come apart but rather the animal's persistence conditions *include* psychological continuity.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The claim conflates our criteria for *identifying* persistence with what *constitutes* it; different epistemic criteria needn't entail metaphysical divergence.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.A single substance can have multiple, nested persistence conditions (e.g., a river persists by flow continuity AND organizational continuity) without coming apart.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Come apart(as used in logic and philosophy)
    To be different or separate from each other; in this case, it means mereological structure and spatial structure could be organized differently.
    persistence conditions
    The conditions under which an object of a given kind can continue to exist; associated with kinds (e.g., lump of clay can survive squashing, statue cannot).
    personhood(Presented as the telos of moral agency)
    A status achievable through moral achievement, contingent on the exercise of the capacity for virtue.
    substance(Spinoza's metaphysics; criteria include (i) necessity and (ii) self-subsistence)
    The fundamental existent that is wholly necessary and self-subsistent, not depending on anything else for its existence

    Connections

    1 topic

    Related

    A human can survive brain transplant (following psychology) while the original a...A single substance can have multiple, nested persistence conditions (e.g., a riv...Animals persist through physical continuity of matter and biological processes, ...If two conditions can come apart in conceivable scenarios, they cannot both be c...
    +3 moreShow less
    Psychological continuity depends on the animal's brain; they don't truly come ap...Questions 1 and 2 about personal identity are equivalent.

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    The claim conflates our criteria for *identifying* persistence with what *consti...