Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    If 'what X is' necessarily invokes extrinsic efficient ca... — Carmelics
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→In physics, the questions 'whether X is' and 'what X is' both ask for any kind of cause of X's existing, including extrinsic efficient or final causes.

    If 'what X is' necessarily invokes extrinsic efficient causes, then definitions of natural kinds would be observer-relative and indexed to contingent causal histories rather than expressing necessary properties.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Natural kind essences depend on causal origins: water's definition requires H2O formation via physical processes, not just molecular structure alone.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Observer-independence requires intrinsic properties only; if definitions invoke external efficient causes, they necessarily depend on causal context.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Contingent causal histories determine kind membership: gold's identity depends on stellar nucleosynthesis, making definitions history-indexed, not purely intrinsic.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Extrinsic efficient causes need not make definitions observer-relative; they can be objective features of the world independent of any observer's perspective.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Necessary properties can invoke causal histories: if a kind necessarily originates via certain processes, those causal facts are still metaphysically necessary, not contingent.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Definitions distinguish causation from essence: oxygen's chemical behavior follows from intrinsic atomic structure, not its causal formation history in stars.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    contingent(De Interpretatione 12–13)
    Equated with 'possible'; on the two-sided interpretation, contingency excludes necessity (possibility implies non-necessity).
    definitions of X(logic and language)
    An explanation of what something essentially is—the core features that make it that thing and not something else.
    extrinsic efficient causes(metaphysics and causation)
    External factors or forces that make something happen or cause it to be what it is, rather than something about its internal nature. Think of how a statue's shape is caused by the sculptor's actions (external) rather than by the marble itself.
    natural kinds(Water is offered as a paradigm example of a natural kind individuated by microstructure)
    Categories of things in nature that share an essential microstructure, used to ground essentialism about species and substances
    necessary properties(Contrasted with impossible properties; both are said to supervene trivially on any property.)
    Properties that everything has necessarily, such that no possible thing can lack them.
    observer-relative(metaphysics and epistemology)
    Something that depends on who is looking at it or how they perceive it, rather than being the same regardless of who observes it.

    Connections

    2 topics

    Proof of definition segments1 linkedCausation1 linked

    Related

    Contingent causal histories determine kind membership: gold's identity depends o...Definitions distinguish causation from essence: oxygen's chemical behavior follo...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Extrinsic efficient causes need not make definitions observer-relative; they can...
    In physics, the questions 'whether X is' and 'what X is' both ask for any kind o...
    +3 moreShow less
    Natural kind essences depend on causal origins: water's definition requires H2O ...Necessary properties can invoke causal histories: if a kind necessarily originat...Observer-independence requires intrinsic properties only; if definitions invoke ...