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    More ambitious arguments for meaning, thought, and selfho... — Carmelics
    Home/Personal Identity
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    More ambitious arguments for meaning, thought, and selfhood being strongly socially constituted may not succeed, and Herder's original empirical-causal version may be the correct one.

    Personal IdentityPhilosophy of Language
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
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    • 1.Subsequent stronger versions of the social-constitution thesis (e.g., in Hegel, Wittgenstein, Kripke, Burge, and Brandom) attempt to go beyond Herder's empirical claim.
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    • 2.It may well be that these stronger versions do not work.
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
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    • 1.Wittgenstein's rule-following considerations show that no private mental act can fix the normative correctness conditions that meaning requires.
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    • 2.Herder's empirical-causal account, relying on individual psychological acquisition of language, cannot explain this normativity without invoking social practice.
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    • 3.Therefore, the stronger social-constitution thesis is not an overreach but a necessary condition for any account of meaning Herder's own framework presupposes.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
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    • 1.Burge's thought experiments demonstrate that content individuation depends on community linguistic standards, not on what is in the head of any individual.
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    • 2.Herder's empirical-causal version, which locates the genesis of thought in individual cognitive development shaped by social input, conflates causal origin with constitutive dependence.
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    • 3.A thesis that is merely causal-genetic cannot account for the modal force of semantic content, leaving Herder's version explanatorily weaker, not more defensible.
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    Topics

    Personal IdentityPhilosophy of Language

    Key Terms

    Herder
    # Herder Johann Gottfried Herder (1744-1803) was a German philosopher who believed that each culture and nation has its own unique spirit and character shaped by its history, language, and environment. He rejected the idea that there was one universal standard of civilization, instead arguing that different peoples develop their own distinct values and ways of life that deserve respect. Herder's ideas were influential in developing modern concepts of nationalism and cultural identity, and he emphasized the importance of understanding people through their own cultural context rather than judging them by outsiders' standards.
    empirical-causal(describing Herder's approach to explaining how thought develops)
    Based on observable experience and focused on cause-and-effect relationships—the idea that one thing directly causes another to happen.
    socially constituted(as used in philosophy of science)
    Created or shaped by society and human interaction, rather than existing independently in nature. Think of money—it only has value because we agree it does.
    strongly socially constituted(describing ambitious arguments about meaning and selfhood)
    The claim that society shapes us in deep, fundamental ways—not just influencing us a little, but actually making us who we are.

    Related

    A thesis that is merely causal-genetic cannot account for the modal force of sem...Burge's thought experiments demonstrate that content individuation depends on co...Herder's empirical-causal account, relying on individual psychological acquisiti...Herder's empirical-causal version, which locates the genesis of thought in indiv...
    +4 moreShow less
    It may well be that these stronger versions do not work.Subsequent stronger versions of the social-constitution thesis (e.g., in Hegel, ...

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: herder
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    In a further seminal move in the philosophy of mind Herder argues that linguistic meaning is fundamentally social—so that thought and other aspects of human mental life (since they are essentially articulated in terms of linguistic meanings), and therefore even the very self (since the self is essentially dependent on thought and other aspects of human mental life, and moreover defined in its specific identity by theirs), are so too. Herder’s version of this position seems intended only as an em
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Therefore, the stronger social-constitution thesis is not an overreach but a nec...
    Wittgenstein's rule-following considerations show that no private mental act can...

    Similar

    The content of thought is not determined individualistically, but is e...75%Liberal conceptions that require all aspects of the self to be alterab...75%Subsequent stronger versions of the social-constitution thesis (e.g., ...75%Language rests on presuppositions about selves and causally arising ph...74%
    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit