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    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that P3 illegitimately conflates causal production of a *determinate outcome* with causal production of the *value itself* as a pre-existing element of reality.

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
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    • 1.The distinction between producing outcomes versus producing values collapses under scrutiny—causing a determinate good outcome just is causing goodness.
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    • 2.Abstract values don't exist 'out there' pre-made; they depend on physical systems and causal processes to instantiate them in the world at all.
      ?

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    • 3.P3's distinction smuggles in Platonism without justification; rejecting it doesn't entail confusing outcome-production with anything illegitimate.
      ?

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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Values like justice or beauty appear to exist independently of any causal process that produces specific instances of them.
      ?

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    • 2.Confusing outcome-production with value-production treats abstract properties as if they were created events, a category mistake.
      ?

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    • 3.If causes produce values themselves, then before those causes existed, values wouldn't exist—making them seem ontologically dependent and contingent.
      ?

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