Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Scott's 1961 theorem shows measurable cardinals destroy V... — Carmelics
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→Small large cardinal axioms are compatible with V=L, unlike measurable cardinals

    Scott's 1961 theorem shows measurable cardinals destroy V=L by producing non-constructible sets, revealing that 'compatibility' conceals a deeper modal distinction between what can be consistently asserted and what can actually obtain simultaneously.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Scott's theorem proves measurable cardinals cannot coexist with V=L, establishing that consistency alone insufficient to determine actual set-theoretic reality.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Distinguishing consistent assertability from simultaneous actuality respects the mathematical insight that multiple consistent theories cannot all describe one universe.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Modal operators properly capture that 'possibly constructible' and 'actually constructible' have different truth conditions, explaining why V=L fails under measurability.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.The claim conflates logical consistency with metaphysical compatibility; Scott's result shows incompatibility, not a hidden modal distinction between them.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Without independent criteria for what 'actually obtains simultaneously,' appealing to modal distinctions risks non-falsifiable speculation beyond mathematics proper.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Set theory's standard semantics already accounts for V=L's falsity without invoking modal collapse; additional modal apparatus adds complexity without explanatory gain.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Actually obtain simultaneously(as used in metaphysics)
    Something that can genuinely exist or happen at the same time in reality, not just in theory.
    Consistently asserted(as used in logic)
    Something you can claim or state without creating a logical contradiction; it doesn't break the rules of logic.
    Measurable cardinals(as used in set theory)
    A highly abstract type of infinite number in mathematics that is so large and structured it has special properties; think of it as an 'super-infinite' that's bigger and more organized than regular infinities.
    Non-constructible sets(as used in set theory)
    Mathematical objects that cannot be built up gradually from simpler pieces using standard rules; they exist but can't be created through any step-by-step process.
    Scott's 1961 theorem(as used in mathematical logic)
    A mathematical proof discovered by logician Dana Scott showing that a certain type of infinite number (called a measurable cardinal) cannot exist within a specific mathematical framework.
    V=L(Set theory; Gödel's constructible universe)
    The statement asserting that all sets are constructible
    modal distinction(Meyronnes's preferred account of the distinction between a haecceity and its associated nature.)
    A distinction that obtains between a thing and an intrinsic mode of that thing, where the intrinsic mode does not vary the thing's formal definition and does not of itself imply any quiddity or formal definition.

    Connections

    2 topics

    Truth & Knowledge1 linkedModality & Possibility1 linked

    Related

    Distinguishing consistent assertability from simultaneous actuality respects the...Modal operators properly capture that 'possibly constructible' and 'actually con...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Scott's theorem proves measurable cardinals cannot coexist with V=L, establishin...
    Set theory's standard semantics already accounts for V=L's falsity without invok...
    +3 moreShow less
    Small large cardinal axioms are compatible with V=L, unlike measurable cardinalsThe claim conflates logical consistency with metaphysical compatibility; Scott's...Without independent criteria for what 'actually obtains simultaneously,' appeali...