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    The hyperreals and standard reals satisfy the transfer pr... — Carmelics
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    Home/Modality & Possibility
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    The hyperreals and standard reals satisfy the transfer principle for first-order logical results, but behave differently for results about sets.

    Modality & PossibilityTruth & Knowledge
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.For results stated in a first-order logical language, the hyperreals and the standard reals satisfy the transfer principle.
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    • 2.Every bounded set of standard reals has a least upper bound.
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    • 3.The set of infinitesimal hyperreals is bounded but has no least upper bound.
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.The set of infinitesimal hyperreals lacks a least upper bound because 'least upper bound' in NSA refers to an internal set, not an external one.
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    • 2.The completeness axiom transfers correctly to hyperreals when restricted to internal sets, making the supporting argument's P3 a category error.
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    • 3.Robinson's transfer principle was explicitly formulated to apply only to internal properties, so citing external sets as counterexamples misrepresents the theorem's scope.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
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    • 1.The claim conflates set-theoretic and model-theoretic senses of 'behave differently,' obscuring that hyperreals are elementarily equivalent to the reals.
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    • 2.Keisler and Robinson demonstrated that any first-order sentence true of the reals is true of the hyperreals, leaving no formal asymmetry at the level of truth.
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    Related

    Every bounded set of standard reals has a least upper bound.For results stated in a first-order logical language, the hyperreals and the sta...Keisler and Robinson demonstrated that any first-order sentence true of the real...Robinson's transfer principle was explicitly formulated to apply only to interna...
    +4 moreShow less
    The claim conflates set-theoretic and model-theoretic senses of 'behave differen...The completeness axiom transfers correctly to hyperreals when restricted to inte...The set of infinitesimal hyperreals is bounded but has no least upper bound.The set of infinitesimal hyperreals lacks a least upper bound because 'least upp...

    Similar

    For results stated in a first-order logical language, the hyperreals a...95%Any proof of a first-order theorem about the standard reals can be tra...89%Robinson's hyperreals satisfy a transfer principle86%If statements are formulated entirely within a first-order language fo...82%

    Source

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    For results stated in a first-order logical language, the hyperreals and the standard reals satisfy the transfer principle. But for results about sets, they behave differently. Every bounded set of standard reals has a least upper bound. However, for instance, the set of infinitesimal hyperreals is bounded (every member is less than .00001, among other bounds), but there is no least upper bound (no infinitesimal is an upper bound for all of the others, and every finitely large upper bound can be
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit