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    Carmelics

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    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
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    Home/Original/inverse
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    Inverse View

    It is not the case that Charmides and Lysis are not among Plato's earliest works even within the early group.

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    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
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    • 1.Socratic 'aporia' endings in Charmides and Lysis mirror the aporetic structure of undisputedly early dialogues like Euthyphro and Laches.
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    • 2.The presence of aporia as a terminal device is a stronger stylistic marker of early composition than the degree of Socratic initiative within a dialogue.
      ?

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    • 3.If aporia-endings reliably signal early composition, then Charmides and Lysis cannot be distinguished from the earliest works on structural grounds alone.
      ?

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    Reason for 2 of 2
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    • 1.Stylometric analyses by Brandwood and Ledger place Charmides and Lysis statistically indistinguishable from Euthyphro, Ion, and Hippias Minor.
      ?

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    • 2.Inferring developmental stage from Socrates' rhetorical activity conflates dramatic characterization with authorial maturity, a methodological error Vlastos warned against.
      ?

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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.In Charmides and Lysis, Socrates appears to play a more active role in shaping the progress of the dialogue.
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    • 2.Socrates having more ideas of his own indicates a more developed authorial stage than the earliest Socratic dialogues.
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