Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Gregory Vlastos argued in 'The Individual as Object of Lo... — Carmelics
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→Diotima's account of love is not a general theory about all love, but specifically a story about correct or successful love.

    Gregory Vlastos argued in 'The Individual as Object of Love in Plato' that Diotima's ascent systematically displaces particular loves, implying a comprehensive normative ontology of all love, not a subset.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Diotima's ladder explicitly instructs the lover to move from one beautiful body to all bodies, suggesting particular attachments are stages to transcend, not endpoints.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If Plato intended the ascent as merely optional spiritual enrichment, he would not structure it as a necessary progression. The prescriptive language indicates universal normative force.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.The final vision of Beauty itself renders all particular instantiations derivative and subordinate, implying they cannot remain legitimate loci of love in a comprehensive system.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Diotima addresses a specific spiritual elite; Plato may not intend this ascent as normative for all lovers or all forms of love across society.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The ascent describes one possible path to understanding love, not necessarily a claim that particular loves must be systematically eliminated for all people.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Vlastos risks over-interpreting silence: Plato never explicitly states that ordinary particular love becomes illegitimate once one glimpses the Form of Beauty.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Diotima(the philosophical theory being discussed)
    A character in Plato's dialogue 'Symposium' who teaches Socrates about love; she describes a spiritual journey of ascending from loving one person to loving beauty itself.
    Gregory Vlastos(as the originator of the theory being discussed)
    A famous 20th-century philosopher who specialized in studying Plato and Socrates. He developed influential theories about what Socrates actually believed based on Plato's writings.
    comprehensive(describing the scope of Diotima's theory)
    Covering everything; here it means the theory doesn't just describe some types of love, but makes a claim about love in general.
    displaces(describing how the ascent works)
    Removes or pushes aside; in this context, means that as you move up the ascent, earlier forms of love (like loving a specific person) get replaced by higher forms (like loving Beauty in general).
    normative ontology(the type of claim Vlastos says Diotima makes)
    A set of beliefs about what *should* exist or be valued as real and important—in this case, a theory about which kinds of love are truly valuable or legitimate.
    the ascent(the concept Vlastos is analyzing)
    Diotima's description of how love progresses upward—starting with attraction to one person's body, then moving to appreciation of beauty in all bodies, then beauty in the mind, until finally reaching love of Beauty itself as an abstract ideal.

    Connections

    2 topics

    Virtue Ethics1 linkedAesthetics1 linked

    Related

    Diotima addresses a specific spiritual elite; Plato may not intend this ascent a...Diotima's account of love is not a general theory about all love, but specifical...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Diotima's ladder explicitly instructs the lover to move from one beautiful body ...
    If Plato intended the ascent as merely optional spiritual enrichment, he would n...
    +3 moreShow less
    The ascent describes one possible path to understanding love, not necessarily a ...The final vision of Beauty itself renders all particular instantiations derivati...Vlastos risks over-interpreting silence: Plato never explicitly states that ordi...