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    Made withinDC&Austin
    Ideas of memory cannot literally be the same ideas that w... — Carmelics
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    321,452
    Perspectives
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    42
    Home/Personal Identity
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Ideas of memory cannot literally be the same ideas that were originally experienced

    Consciousness & Mind
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.When consciousness of original ideas ceases, those original ideas cease to exist
      ?

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    • 2.Memory occurs after the original experience, when consciousness of the original ideas has ceased
      ?

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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Hume's bundle theory allows that numerically distinct perceptions can be qualitatively identical, preserving type-identity across time.
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    • 2.The claim conflates token identity (same particular instance) with type identity (same kind of idea), which are distinct metaphysical relations.
      ?

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    • 3.Memory fidelity requires only type-identity of ideas, not token-identity, so cessation of original tokens is compatible with genuine memorial recurrence.
      ?

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    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Aristotle's account in De Memoria holds that memory involves a persisting physiological trace (phantasma) causally continuous with the original perception.
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    • 2.If the original idea leaves a stable neurophysiological or representational trace, the memorial idea inherits its content through causal continuity, not mere resemblance.
      ?

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    • 3.Causal continuity theories from Grice to Shoemaker ground identity through reliable causal chains, making literal sameness of content defensible even across temporal gaps.
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    Topics

    Personal IdentityConsciousness & Mind

    Related

    Aristotle's account in De Memoria holds that memory involves a persisting physio...Causal continuity theories from Grice to Shoemaker ground identity through relia...Hume's bundle theory allows that numerically distinct perceptions can be qualita...If the original idea leaves a stable neurophysiological or representational trac...
    +4 moreShow less
    Memory fidelity requires only type-identity of ideas, not token-identity, so ces...Memory occurs after the original experience, when consciousness of the original ...The claim conflates token identity (same particular instance) with type identity...When consciousness of original ideas ceases, those original ideas cease to exist

    Similar

    Memory cannot consist in re-experiencing the numerically identical ori...81%It is not plausible to suppose that ordinary memory-images are respons...77%The Humean RTM fails to shed light on the nature of memory because it ...76%The Lockean RTM fails to shed light on the nature of memory because it...76%

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: memory-episprob
    View source passageHide passage
    So Reid thinks that Hume is illegitimately smuggling in a more standard understanding both of what memory is and of the knowledge it provides in giving his deflationary account. But it gets worse. Hume's theory does no better than Locke's in offering a sufficient condition for memory. First, as Locke and Reid have previously noted, it isn't literally true that the ideas of memory are the same ideas that were experienced before; when we cease to be conscious of the original ideas, they cease to
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit