Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    If mere-consciousness were the perfect nature and thus ul... — Carmelics
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→The perfect nature is identical to mere-consciousness

    If mere-consciousness were the perfect nature and thus ultimate truth, consciousness would possess intrinsic existence, which Prāsaṅgika Mādhyamikas systematically refute as incoherent.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Intrinsic existence requires independence from conceptual designation and relational dependence, which consciousness demonstrably lacks.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Prāsaṅgika analysis shows all phenomena require dependent origination; claiming consciousness escapes this is special pleading.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If consciousness had intrinsic nature, it would be unchanging and non-relational, contradicting its empirical dependence on causes.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Denying consciousness intrinsic existence may undermine the very coherence needed to make philosophical arguments about emptiness itself.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The claim conflates 'lacks intrinsic existence' with 'is not ultimate truth'—dependent phenomena can still be fundamentally real.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Prāsaṅgika refutation of intrinsic existence applies equally to the doctrine itself, creating potential self-undermining circularity.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Incoherent(describing whether moral responsibility can exist)
    Logically impossible or contradictory; something that cannot make sense or cannot exist at the same time as something else.
    Intrinsic existence(as what Nāgārjuna rejects)
    The idea that something has a fixed, independent nature or essence that makes it what it is, completely on its own without depending on anything else.
    Perfect nature(as applied to consciousness in this argument)
    A quality or characteristic that is complete, flawless, and needs nothing else to explain or define it.
    Prāsaṅgika Mādhyamika(as the philosophical tradition making the refutation)
    A school of Buddhist philosophy that argues nothing has independent, self-contained existence—everything depends on other things and our way of thinking about it.
    Systematically refute(as the method Prāsaṅgika Mādhyamikas use against intrinsic existence)
    To carefully and thoroughly disprove something using step-by-step logical reasoning rather than dismissing it casually.
    consciousness(Philosophy of mind; framing the 'What is consciousness?' question)
    A dynamic process characterized by self-transforming flow, intentional coherence, and semantic self-understanding, rather than a static or momentary state.
    ultimate truth(Candrakīrti's Mādhyamika framework distinguishing two levels of truth)
    Truth concerning the highest goal; specifically, that phenomena do not come into being.

    Connections

    2 topics

    Truth & Knowledge1 linkedConsciousness & Mind1 linked

    Related

    Denying consciousness intrinsic existence may undermine the very coherence neede...If consciousness had intrinsic nature, it would be unchanging and non-relational...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Intrinsic existence requires independence from conceptual designation and relati...
    Prāsaṅgika analysis shows all phenomena require dependent origination; claiming ...
    +3 moreShow less
    Prāsaṅgika refutation of intrinsic existence applies equally to the doctrine its...The claim conflates 'lacks intrinsic existence' with 'is not ultimate truth'—dep...The perfect nature is identical to mere-consciousness