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    If passions are constitutively good or evil rather than i... — Carmelics
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    Challenges→Good and evil do not pertain to the second and third species of quality (disposition and passion/movement)

    If passions are constitutively good or evil rather than instrumentally so, the premise that good and evil require reference to an end is itself contestable within the broader ancient tradition.

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    1 reason for
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    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
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    • 1.Stoic philosophy treated virtue as intrinsically good regardless of outcomes, suggesting value independent of instrumental ends.
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    • 2.Plato's Form of the Good transcends teleological reasoning, implying goodness exists as absolute quality, not just means to ends.
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    • 3.If all value required reference to ends, infinite regress threatens unless some final good is intrinsically valuable, not instrumental.
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    Reasons Against

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    Reason against
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    • 1.Aristotle's eudaimonia framework, foundational to ancient ethics, explicitly grounds all virtue in the end of human flourishing.
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    • 2.Even Stoic 'constitutive goods' (virtue) serve the end of living according to nature, making them ultimately teleologically justified.
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    • 3.The claim conflates logical independence from ends with metaphysical independence; passion-value may be analyzable without reference to ends.
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    Key Terms

    Constitutively good or evil(as used in ethics)
    Something that is good or bad in its very nature or essence, rather than because of what it leads to or produces.
    Contestable(describing the status of historical evidence)
    Open to debate or disagreement; something people can reasonably argue against.
    End (as in 'reference to an end')(as used in ethics and metaphysics)
    A goal, purpose, or final outcome that something is aimed at or supposed to achieve.
    Instrumentally good or evil(as used in ethics)
    Something that is good or bad because of what it helps you achieve or what results it produces, not because of what it is in itself.
    Premise
    A premise is a statement or fact that you assume to be true as a starting point for reasoning or making an argument. Think of it as the foundation or building block you use to reach a conclusion—for example, "All dogs are animals" and "My pet is a dog" are premises that lead to the conclusion "My pet is an animal." Premises are essentially the evidence or claims you offer before drawing a final conclusion.
    The ancient tradition(as used in philosophy history)
    A reference to ancient Greek and Roman philosophy (roughly 500 BCE to 500 CE), including thinkers like Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics.
    passions(Distinguishes passions as states of maximal engagement of the soul's lower cognitive and appetitive faculties)
    States in which almost the entire lower power of cognition and desire is engaged

    Connections

    2 topics

    Virtue Ethics1 linkedMoral Responsibility1 linked

    Related

    Aristotle's eudaimonia framework, foundational to ancient ethics, explicitly gro...Even Stoic 'constitutive goods' (virtue) serve the end of living according to na...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Good and evil do not pertain to the second and third species of quality (disposi...
    If all value required reference to ends, infinite regress threatens unless some ...
    +3 moreShow less
    Plato's Form of the Good transcends teleological reasoning, implying goodness ex...Stoic philosophy treated virtue as intrinsically good regardless of outcomes, su...The claim conflates logical independence from ends with metaphysical independenc...