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    If the threshold quantity of suffering necessary to produ... — Carmelics
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    Challenges→The probability that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect person must be very low indeed.

    If the threshold quantity of suffering necessary to produce serious moral agents and deep compassion is empirically indeterminate, then a large n of suffering cases cannot by itself lower the probability of theism without begging the question against these theodicies.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
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    • 1.If we cannot empirically determine the minimum suffering needed for moral development, we lack grounds to say any amount exceeds what's necessary.
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    • 2.Without knowing the threshold, assuming N cases of suffering are excessive begs the question by presupposing the theodicy is false.
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    • 3.Empirical indeterminacy shifts burden of proof to the critic to show suffering exceeds unknown requirements, not to theists to justify it.
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    Reasons Against

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    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Empirical indeterminacy of a threshold doesn't immunize claims from evidence; we judge proportionality without precise quantification constantly.
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    • 2.The sheer scale of suffering (animal predation, childhood cancer, etc.) provides strong inductive grounds regardless of exact threshold uncertainty.
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    • 3.Theodicies claiming suffering necessity bear their own burden; invoking indeterminacy to avoid scrutiny reverses proper evidential responsibility.
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    Key Terms

    Empirically indeterminate(in epistemology)
    Something that cannot be determined or measured through observation and evidence; we can't figure it out by looking at real-world data.
    Lower the probability(in logic and arguments about evidence)
    To make something seem less likely to be true based on evidence or reasoning.
    Moral agents(as used in ethics)
    People or entities capable of understanding right and wrong, making choices based on moral principles, and being held responsible for their actions.
    Threshold quantity(as used in this ethical argument)
    The minimum amount of something needed to reach a certain point or trigger a certain effect.
    begging the question(Listed alongside equivocation as an example of a fallacy that highlights important issues in real-life arguing)
    A fallacy also known as circular reasoning
    theism(Distinguished from monotheism as a weaker claim about the number of divine beings.)
    The position that at least one god exists.
    theodicy(Central concern of Plutarch's era)
    The philosophical problem of reconciling the existence of evil and unpunished wrongdoing with the existence and goodness of divine providence.

    Connections

    1 topic

    Problem of Evil1 linked

    Related

    Empirical indeterminacy of a threshold doesn't immunize claims from evidence; we...Empirical indeterminacy shifts burden of proof to the critic to show suffering e...If we cannot empirically determine the minimum suffering needed for moral develo...The probability that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect per...

    Details

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    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    +3 moreShow less
    The sheer scale of suffering (animal predation, childhood cancer, etc.) provides...Theodicies claiming suffering necessity bear their own burden; invoking indeterm...Without knowing the threshold, assuming N cases of suffering are excessive begs ...