Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    The above proof of the intermediate value result can be r... — Carmelics
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Philosophy of Language
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    The above proof of the intermediate value result can be read either as a syntactic derivation from the axioms or as a semantic argument

    Philosophy of LanguageProof of definition segments
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.On the surface the proof looks like a semantic argument
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Every step of the proof can be derived from the axioms
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Syntactic derivations in second-order logic based on the Comprehension Axiom Schema and Axioms of Choice are very much like syntactic derivations in set theory, and working mathematicians write both in shorthand
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Syntactic derivability in second-order logic is not recursively enumerable, so no finite proof system can capture all second-order validities.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.A proof that cannot be mechanically verified as syntactically complete conflates semantic entailment with derivability, undermining the syntactic reading.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Kreisel and Boolos demonstrated that second-order consequence is not axiomatizable, meaning 'derivation from axioms' in second-order logic is inherently incomplete relative to standard semantics.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If the proof's validity depends on the intended interpretation of quantifiers over all subsets, then the semantic reading is doing essential work that the syntactic reading cannot replicate.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Topics

    Philosophy of LanguageProof of definition segments

    Connections

    1 topic

    Truth & Knowledge2 linked

    Related

    A proof that cannot be mechanically verified as syntactically complete conflates...Every step of the proof can be derived from the axiomsIf the proof's validity depends on the intended interpretation of quantifiers ov...Kreisel and Boolos demonstrated that second-order consequence is not axiomatizab...
    +3 moreShow less
    On the surface the proof looks like a semantic argumentSyntactic derivability in second-order logic is not recursively enumerable, so n...Syntactic derivations in second-order logic based on the Comprehension Axiom Sch...

    Similar

    Logical semantics shows how certain syntactic manipulations lead from ...72%Every step of the proof can be derived from the axioms72%A semantic argument in set theory is convertible to a syntactic formal...71%The argument for deriving Peano's axioms from Frege's procedure requir...71%

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: logic-higher-order
    View source passageHide passage
    Let \(c,d\in (a,b)\) such that \(f(c)<0\) and \(f(d)>0\). Without loss of generality, \(c<d\). Let \(X=\{e\in(a,b) : f(e)<0\}\). Since we have relation variables for subsets of the domain, we can think of X simply as a value of such a relation variable. , \(X=\{e : e\notin X\}\)) and then we should not be able to claim that it exists. However, in this case the Comprehension Axiom Schema implies that X exists. Clearly, \(X\ne\emptyset\) and X is bounded from above by d. One of the sec
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit