Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    The claim that 'Dao follows ziran' while ziran is identic... — Carmelics
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→The Dao's following ziran does not initiate an infinite regress of grounding relations

    The claim that 'Dao follows ziran' while ziran is identical to Dao's own nature still posits a following-relation between Dao and a character it instantiates, inviting exactly this Bradleyan regress.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Any relation between a thing and its own property requires a mediating term, generating infinite regress (Bradley's regress).
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Claiming Dao both instantiates ziran and follows it posits ziran as simultaneously Dao's nature and something Dao conforms to.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Self-instantiation without a separate following-relation avoids the regress but requires rejecting the 'follows' language as misleading.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Bradley's regress assumes relations and relata are ontologically distinct; Daoist thought may not endorse this categorial separation.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Ziran (spontaneity) may denote Dao's self-actualization, not a separate property Dao instantiates, making 'follows' metaphorical rather than literal.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.The regress only arises if 'follows' is a genuine relational predicate; interpreted as expressing non-duality, it avoids the formal problem entirely.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Bradleyan regress(logical problem in metaphysics)
    An infinite logical problem named after philosopher F.H. Bradley: if A relates to B, you need another relation to connect A to that first relation, then another relation to connect to that one, and so on forever with no end—suggesting the original explanation doesn't actually work.
    dao(Classical Chinese philosophy / Daoist text interpretation)
    A way or path that may be correct or constant; the subject of the opening of the Laozi text, where its expressibility or conveyability in language is in question
    following-relation(describing the relationship between Dao and ziran)
    A logical or causal connection where one thing depends on or comes after another, like how an effect follows from a cause.
    instantiates(as used in metaphysics)
    To instantiate means to be a specific example or instance of something more general. For example, a red apple instantiates the property 'redness.'
    ziran(Used to characterize the Dao's mode of being and self-grounding nature)
    Self-so or spontaneous; making it up oneself on the fly rather than following or depending on something external

    Related

    Any relation between a thing and its own property requires a mediating term, gen...Bradley's regress assumes relations and relata are ontologically distinct; Daois...Claiming Dao both instantiates ziran and follows it posits ziran as simultaneous...Self-instantiation without a separate following-relation avoids the regress but ...
    +3 moreShow less
    The Dao's following ziran does not initiate an infinite regress of grounding rel...The regress only arises if 'follows' is a genuine relational predicate; interpre...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Ziran (spontaneity) may denote Dao's self-actualization, not a separate property...