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    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that The Father and the Son are really distinct and not really the same.

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Within a single divine substance, relational opposition—not numerical distinctness—is sufficient to ground the distinction between Father and Son.
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      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Aquinas's doctrine of subsistent relations holds that the persons are distinguished by relations alone, not by being separate res.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If real distinction requires separate res, then Trinitarian persons are relationally rather than really distinct in the relevant metaphysical sense.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Absolute divine simplicity entails that God admits of no real internal distinctions, since any real distinction implies composition.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If there are no real distinctions within God, Father and Son are distinguished only by mode of presentation or rational distinction (distinctio rationis), not in re.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.The Sabellian-adjacent position that modal distinctions suffice for Trinitarian theology remains a live option consistent with strict divine simplicity.
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      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.The Father loves the Son.
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      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Lover and beloved in a charity of friendship cannot be numerically identical.
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      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Numerical distinctness (non-identity) implies real distinctness.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

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    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.