Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that The smoke certifies the accomplished destruction forever instead of continual destruction

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.The Revelation 14:11 phrase is taken from Genesis 19
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Genesis 19 is about complete and final destruction of Sodom
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If the above is true, the phrase is about complete and final destruction
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.The Revelation 14:11 phrase is taken from Genesis 19
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Genesis 19 is about complete and final destruction of Sodom
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If the above is true, the phrase is about complete and final destruction
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Revelation 14:11 adds 'they have no rest day or night,' a phrase absent from Genesis 19, indicating a distinct and ongoing experiential state.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The grammatical present tense of 'have no rest' (ἔχουσιν) in Greek denotes continuous, unceasing action rather than a completed past event.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Intertextual allusion does not require semantic identity; a later text may extend or transform a source image to signify a new theological reality.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Isaiah 34:10, which also uses perpetual smoke imagery for Edom, is explicitly temporally extended ('from generation to generation'), suggesting the smoke motif inherently implies duration rather than mere finality.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Gregory of Nyssa and Tertullian both distinguish between the cessation of an event and the ongoing testimony of its consequences, a distinction applicable to perpetual smoke as witness to an enduring state.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.