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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    The Son and Spirit exist of necessity dependently. — Carmelics
    Home/Trinity
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    The Son and Spirit exist of necessity dependently.

    Trinity
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.The Father exists necessarily and independently.
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    • 2.The Father's existence implies that he causes the Son and the Spirit.
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Classical Nicene theology (Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa) holds that the Son is eternally begotten from the Father's essence, not from a discrete causal act.
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    • 2.Eternal generation from shared divine essence is incompatible with the asymmetric dependency relation that distinguishes necessary-dependent from necessary-independent existence.
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    • 3.Therefore the Son's mode of existence cannot be coherently classified as 'dependent' without implying a subordinationism the tradition explicitly rejected at Nicaea.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.If the Son exists of necessity, his existence cannot be contingent on any causal act, even one performed necessarily by the Father.
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    • 2.Necessary existence entails existence in all possible worlds independently of any relational or causal grounding.
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    Trinity

    Related

    Classical Nicene theology (Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa) holds that the Son is e...Eternal generation from shared divine essence is incompatible with the asymmetri...If the Son exists of necessity, his existence cannot be contingent on any causal...Necessary existence entails existence in all possible worlds independently of an...
    +3 moreShow less
    The Father exists necessarily and independently.The Father's existence implies that he causes the Son and the Spirit.Therefore the Son's mode of existence cannot be coherently classified as 'depend...

    Similar

    The Father exists necessarily and independently.83%The Father's existence implies that he causes the Son and the Spirit.76%Many qua-objects of God are contingent (e.g. God-as-creator, God-as-fr...73%Aseity is not essential to divinity (i.e., not essential for being wor...69%

    Source

    AI-extracted2/3 agreementValid
    SEP: trinity
    Swinburne 2018, 437 n. 14
    View source passageHide passage
    Swinburne aims to build his theory on widespread traditional agreements between most catholic theologians since at least the fourth and fifth centuries (Swinburne 2018, Section 1). The Persons of the Trinity are three beings, each a self which satisfies Boethius’s definition of a “person” as “an individual substance (substantia) of a rational nature” (421). Each is divine in that each has all the divine attributes. “A divine person is naturally understood as one who is essentially eternally omnipotent and exists (in some sense) ’necessarily’” (427). He argues that omnipotence entails perfect g...
    Extraction notes

    Validity: The passage explicitly states that "the Son and Spirit exist of necessity dependently, because necessarily, the Father exists, and his existence implies that he causes them," which directly matches the extracted argument's premises and conclusion.

    Confidence: Clearly laid out causal/dependency argument.

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit