Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    A being essentially and eternally omnipotent cannot be af... — Carmelics
    Home
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→A divine person is essentially eternally omnipotent and exists necessarily.

    A being essentially and eternally omnipotent cannot be affected by or genuinely related to contingent creatures, undermining the relational personhood essential to Trinitarian theology.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.If X is omnipotent, X cannot be affected by what X does not control; contingent creatures fall outside divine control by definition.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Genuine relation requires mutual dependence; an eternal being depends on nothing, so relations with contingents cannot be genuinely reciprocal.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Trinitarian personhood requires internal relations; if God cannot be affected by creatures, divine persons relate only to each other, not externally.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Omnipotence may include the power to self-limit; voluntary constraint on omnipotence for relational purposes doesn't contradict omnipotence itself.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Relation doesn't require symmetrical dependence; a parent genuinely relates to a child despite asymmetrical power and independence conditions.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.God's atemporality allows God to be 'affected' in a timeless way; divine knowledge of all contingencies constitutes genuine relation without temporal causation.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Key Terms

    Creatures(theology and metaphysics)
    In philosophical and theological contexts, living beings—particularly used here to mean individual entities like individual people (Socrates being an example).
    Trinitarian theology(the statement argues this theology requires God to have real relationships, which seems impossible if God is completely unaffected by creation)
    The Christian belief that God exists in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—while being one God.
    affected by(the argument claims an all-powerful God cannot be genuinely influenced by lesser beings)
    Influenced, changed, or impacted by something outside yourself.
    contingent(De Interpretatione 12–13)
    Equated with 'possible'; on the two-sided interpretation, contingency excludes necessity (possibility implies non-necessity).
    essentially(describing what makes God inherently God)
    As a fundamental, unchangeable part of what something is—if something is essential to God, it's always been and always will be part of God's nature.
    eternally(means God's omnipotence never changes and has always been absolute)
    Existing forever, without beginning or end.
    omnipotent(Used in the context of arguing about whether multiple omnipotent beings could coexist.)
    A being whose will is never thwarted; a being capable of bringing about any willed outcome.
    relational personhood(suggests that God must actually be affected by and connected to creation to be considered a 'person')
    The idea that being a person means having genuine relationships with others—that you are shaped by and truly connected to people around you.

    Connections

    1 topic

    Trinity1 linked

    Related

    A divine person is essentially eternally omnipotent and exists necessarily.Genuine relation requires mutual dependence; an eternal being depends on nothing...God's atemporality allows God to be 'affected' in a timeless way; divine knowled...If X is omnipotent, X cannot be affected by what X does not control; contingent ...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    +3 moreShow less
    Omnipotence may include the power to self-limit; voluntary constraint on omnipot...Relation doesn't require symmetrical dependence; a parent genuinely relates to a...Trinitarian personhood requires internal relations; if God cannot be affected by...