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    Carmelics

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
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    42
    A conversion that God guarantees through orchestrated suf... — Carmelics
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    Part of a larger discussion

    Challenges→God would have a sure-fire way to shatter the illusions that make sinners' rebellion possible, even for the most tenacious sinners.

    A conversion that God guarantees through orchestrated suffering cannot serve as the basis for authentic moral relationship, undermining the very good it was meant to achieve.

    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Authentic moral relationships require voluntary choice; coerced conversions through suffering eliminate the autonomy necessary for genuine commitment.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Trust cannot develop when one party orchestrates another's pain to achieve predetermined outcomes, poisoning the relational foundation.
      ?

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    • 3.A conversion motivated by escape from suffering differs fundamentally from one arising from genuine conviction, rendering it morally unstable.
      ?

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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Suffering-induced conversions may produce authentic moral transformation if the resulting commitment becomes genuinely owned over time.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The claim assumes moral relationships require absence of coercion, but many meaningful relationships involve constraint alongside authentic commitment.
      ?

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    • 3.If God's orchestration serves ultimate flourishing, initial suffering might be instrumentally justified like difficult medical treatment for healing.
      ?

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    Connections

    2 topics

    Eternal Conscious Torment1 linkedAfterlife & Death1 linked

    Related

    A conversion motivated by escape from suffering differs fundamentally from one a...Authentic moral relationships require voluntary choice; coerced conversions thro...God would have a sure-fire way to shatter the illusions that make sinners' rebel...If God's orchestration serves ultimate flourishing, initial suffering might be i...
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    Suffering-induced conversions may produce authentic moral transformation if the ...The claim assumes moral relationships require absence of coercion, but many mean...Trust cannot develop when one party orchestrates another's pain to achieve prede...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit