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    If eternal separation from the highest good produces maxi... — Carmelics
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    Supports→ECT involves people being forever tortured in Hell with utmost intensity

    If eternal separation from the highest good produces maximal suffering in conscious beings, then eternal alienation and utmost torment are not mutually exclusive but co-constitutive.

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    1 reason for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Conscious beings experience suffering as relational: deprivation intensifies when one comprehends what is lost, making separation from ultimate good inherently torturous.
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    • 2.Co-constitution means neither alienation nor torment can fully exist without the other—awareness of separation IS the torment, making them logically inseparable states.
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    • 3.If the highest good is the ultimate object of conscious flourishing, its permanent absence necessarily constitutes maximal suffering by definition.
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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Alienation (distance/separation) and torment (acute suffering) are distinct phenomena—one can exist without the other; beings adapt to chronic loss without proportional agony.
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    • 2.The claim conflates psychological suffering with metaphysical necessity; even if separation causes suffering, this doesn't prove they're co-constitutive rather than merely correlated.
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    • 3.Maximal suffering may plateau or become psychologically incomprehensible; consciousness might not sustain awareness of deprivation eternally, undermining the co-constitution argument.
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    Key Terms

    Alienation(the key concept being debated)
    A state where workers feel disconnected or separated from the things they make, their own labor, or themselves—often because they have no control over what they create.
    co-constitutive(Nāgārjuna's non-foundationalist account of the two truths)
    A relation in which two truths mutually entail each other — neither can obtain without the other.
    eternal separation(as used in theology and metaphysics)
    A permanent, never-ending state of being cut off or disconnected from something (in this case, from what is considered ultimately good or divine).
    maximal suffering(as used in ethics and philosophy of mind)
    The greatest possible amount or intensity of pain, anguish, or distress that could be experienced.
    mutually exclusive(in logic)
    Two things are mutually exclusive when they cannot both be true or both happen at the same time.
    the highest good(Consolation of Philosophy III.10, drawing on Neoplatonic metaphysics)
    The perfect good and perfect happiness, which according to Philosophy's second line of argument are identical with God

    Connections

    2 topics

    Eternal Conscious Torment1 linkedAgainst an aspect of God1 linked

    Related

    Alienation (distance/separation) and torment (acute suffering) are distinct phen...Co-constitution means neither alienation nor torment can fully exist without the...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    2 (1 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Conscious beings experience suffering as relational: deprivation intensifies whe...
    ECT involves people being forever tortured in Hell with utmost intensity
    +3 moreShow less
    If the highest good is the ultimate object of conscious flourishing, its permane...Maximal suffering may plateau or become psychologically incomprehensible; consci...The claim conflates psychological suffering with metaphysical necessity; even if...