Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Matter has never come into existence but is co-eternal wi... — Carmelics
    Home/Divine Attributes
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Matter has never come into existence but is co-eternal with God, yet distinct from God.

    Divine Attributes
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.A literal interpretation of Plato's Timaeus requires that matter is not created.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Matter is unlimited, indefinite, without form and quality.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Co-eternal entities are distinct from the divine principle while sharing existence without temporal origin.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Plotinus argues that matter, as pure privation and non-being, cannot be co-eternal with the One without introducing an uncaused dualistic principle.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.A co-eternal matter constrains divine omnipotence by positing an independent substrate God did not produce, violating the Neoplatonic principle of unified causation.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Augustine contends in Confessions XII that formless matter is itself created ex nihilo, since existence of any kind requires a divine source.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If matter is unlimited and indefinite as P2 claims, it possesses no ontological ground for its own eternal subsistence independent of a sustaining cause.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Topics

    Divine AttributesNatural Theology

    Connections

    2 topics

    Against an attribute of God1 linkedModality & Possibility1 linked

    Related

    A co-eternal matter constrains divine omnipotence by positing an independent sub...A literal interpretation of Plato's Timaeus requires that matter is not created.Augustine contends in Confessions XII that formless matter is itself created ex ...Co-eternal entities are distinct from the divine principle while sharing existen...
    +3 moreShow less
    If matter is unlimited and indefinite as P2 claims, it possesses no ontological ...Matter is unlimited, indefinite, without form and quality.Plotinus argues that matter, as pure privation and non-being, cannot be co-etern...

    Similar

    Matter is eternal and uncreated84%It is possible that God does not exist.84%The First Being has existed without beginning and will exist without e...83%Hence it is not possible that God exists.82%

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: numenius
    View source passageHide passage
    Such an argument shows that Numenius has strong views about the ontological status of matter, the basis, he supposes, of all bodies (fr. 4b.25). In his 4th c. CE Latin commentary on the Timaeus Calcidius presents a long discussion about the status of matter (In Timaeum p. 297.7-301.20 Waszink), claiming that this is based on Numenius (fr. 52.2). If Numenius did elaborate on the status of matter along the lines suggested in Calcidius, that must be because it was crucial to do so for his argument
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit