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    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that What humans ultimately seek is pleasure or delectation, both in this life and in the life to come.

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
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    • 1.Kant argues that actions motivated by inclination or pleasure have no genuine moral worth; only duty-based action carries categorical moral value.
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    • 2.If pleasure were the ultimate end of all human seeking, moral obligation would collapse into prudential self-interest, eliminating the distinction between virtue and self-love.
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    • 3.Valla's reduction of virtue to instrumental pleasure commits a genetic fallacy: the painful origin of virtuous habit does not determine the intrinsic nature of its end.
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    Reason for 2 of 2
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    • 1.Aristotle distinguishes eudaimonia from hedone, arguing that the highest human end is activity in accordance with the excellences of reason, not mere subjective pleasure.
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    • 2.The Stoic tradition, from Epictetus to Marcus Aurelius, holds that virtue is the only genuine good and that external pleasures are 'indifferents' incapable of constituting ultimate ends.
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    • 3.Since both Aristotelian and Stoic frameworks are internally coherent and historically robust, the claim that pleasure is the universal ultimate end is not a necessary conclusion from human psychology.
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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
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    • 1.Virtue is not sought for its own sake because it requires enduring harsh and bitter afflictions.
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    • 2.No one naturally and voluntarily seeks virtue as an end in itself.
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    • 3.The true goal toward which virtuous behavior leads is pleasure or delectation.
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    Next step

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    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.