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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    De facto obedience is neither necessary nor sufficient fo... — Carmelics
    Home/Social Contract
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    De facto obedience is neither necessary nor sufficient for establishing the legitimacy of a civil body

    Social Contract
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    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.The church had in fact been exercising power over religious matters such as interpreting Scripture, excommunicating heretics, and providing for the poor
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    • 2.Yet the sovereign alone has rightful authority over those religious matters
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    • 3.Actual exercise of power does not confer legitimate authority
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
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    • 1.Sustained, effective exercise of power over time generates legitimate expectations of authority that cannot be dismissed as mere fact.
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    • 2.Hume argues that long-established governments acquire legitimacy through custom and habit, making de facto continuity constitutive of de jure authority.
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    • 3.A sovereign who lacks effective power to enforce religious matters has forfeited the normative basis for claiming exclusive jurisdiction over them.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Weber's analysis shows that legitimacy is socially constructed through subjects' beliefs, meaning de facto obedience just is what political legitimacy consists in.
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    • 2.If a population consistently obeys the church's authority over scripture and poor relief without coercion, this widespread recognition is itself the criterion of legitimate authority.
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    Topics

    Social Contract

    Connections

    2 topics

    Rights & Liberty2 linkedInsubordination to God1 linked

    Related

    A sovereign who lacks effective power to enforce religious matters has forfeited...Actual exercise of power does not confer legitimate authorityHume argues that long-established governments acquire legitimacy through custom ...If a population consistently obeys the church's authority over scripture and poo...
    +4 moreShow less
    Sustained, effective exercise of power over time generates legitimate expectatio...The church had in fact been exercising power over religious matters such as inte...Weber's analysis shows that legitimacy is socially constructed through subjects'...

    Similar

    Therefore, legitimate political authority creates a liability for thos...79%Legitimate political authority does not entail an obligation to obey.78%It is the duty of the sovereign authority alone to determine how a per...76%Political legitimacy should be understood as what creates political au...74%

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: spinoza-political
    View source passageHide passage
    Some evidence in support of this psychological interpretation comes in TTP 17, where Spinoza claims that sovereign power or authority derives from the will of its subjects to obey (TTP 17, 209–10; cf. TP 2/9–10). There are places in the text, however, when Spinoza seems to imply that we have obligations to the sovereign irrespective of our psychological or motivational state. In some of these instances, a careful reading reveals that nothing of the sort is implied. For instance, his claim that “
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Yet the sovereign alone has rightful authority over those religious matters
    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit