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    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that God is timeless without creation and temporal with creation.

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.A being that genuinely changes from timeless to temporal undergoes a real intrinsic change, not merely an extrinsic one.
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    • 2.If God acquires the real property of 'being temporal,' this constitutes an intrinsic change incompatible with divine immutability.
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    • 3.Therefore, the timeless-to-temporal transition entails a mutable God, contradicting the classical theism the view aims to preserve.
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    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Aquinas argued that relations between God and creation are real on creation's side but purely logical on God's side, requiring no change in God.
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    • 2.If God's entry into time is grounded solely in an extrinsic relational change, the distinction between 'timeless without creation' and 'temporal with creation' collapses into a merely linguistic difference.
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    • 3.A purely linguistic distinction cannot ground the metaphysically robust claim that God is genuinely temporal after creation.
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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.God exists timelessly 'without' creation rather than before creation, because there isn't literally a before.
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      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.God enters time at the moment of creation.
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    • 3.God exists changelessly and timelessly, but by creating, God undergoes an extrinsic change which draws Him into time.
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    Next step

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    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.