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    Carmelics

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    God is timeless without creation and temporal with creation. — Carmelics
    Home/Afterlife & Death
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    God is timeless without creation and temporal with creation.

    Afterlife & Death
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.God exists timelessly 'without' creation rather than before creation, because there isn't literally a before.
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    • 2.God enters time at the moment of creation.
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    • 3.God exists changelessly and timelessly, but by creating, God undergoes an extrinsic change which draws Him into time.
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.A being that genuinely changes from timeless to temporal undergoes a real intrinsic change, not merely an extrinsic one.
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    • 2.If God acquires the real property of 'being temporal,' this constitutes an intrinsic change incompatible with divine immutability.
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    • 3.Therefore, the timeless-to-temporal transition entails a mutable God, contradicting the classical theism the view aims to preserve.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Aquinas argued that relations between God and creation are real on creation's side but purely logical on God's side, requiring no change in God.
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    • 2.If God's entry into time is grounded solely in an extrinsic relational change, the distinction between 'timeless without creation' and 'temporal with creation' collapses into a merely linguistic difference.
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    • 3.A purely linguistic distinction cannot ground the metaphysically robust claim that God is genuinely temporal after creation.
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    Topics

    Afterlife & Death

    Related

    A being that genuinely changes from timeless to temporal undergoes a real intrin...A purely linguistic distinction cannot ground the metaphysically robust claim th...Aquinas argued that relations between God and creation are real on creation's si...God enters time at the moment of creation.
    +5 moreShow less
    God exists changelessly and timelessly, but by creating, God undergoes an extrin...God exists timelessly 'without' creation rather than before creation, because th...If God acquires the real property of 'being temporal,' this constitutes an intri...If God's entry into time is grounded solely in an extrinsic relational change, t...Therefore, the timeless-to-temporal transition entails a mutable God, contradict...

    Similar

    God is temporal after creation, even if God was timeless before creati...91%God exists timelessly 'without' creation rather than before creation, ...88%God exists changelessly and timelessly, but by creating, God undergoes...84%God has a timeless mode of existence.84%

    Source

    AI-extracted
    SEP: eternity
    View source passageHide passage
    A more recent idea is that of a typically temporal property (TTP). A property is a TTP if a term predicating it is “part of a definition of being temporal or figures appropriately in the right sort of nondefining sufficient condition for being temporal” (Leftow 2002). The right sort is for example “necessarily, whatever is past was temporal” rather than “necessarily, whatever is a pig is temporal”. The thought is that just like being bipedal helps make us human without being sufficient for making us human, so, e.g., being present helps make things temporal without being sufficient for making t...

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit