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    Carmelics

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    God must exemplify pain. — Carmelics
    Home/Divine Attributes
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    God must exemplify pain.

    Against an attribute of GodDivine Attributes
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    2 reasons for
    1 reason against

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Classical theism holds that God is ipsum esse subsistens — the pure act of being in whom all perfections are identical with his essence.
      ?

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    • 2.Pain, insofar as it involves awareness of privation, presupposes a gap between actual and ideal states that pure actuality cannot contain.
      ?

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    • 3.Therefore God cannot exemplify pain without contradicting the classical doctrine of divine simplicity and pure actuality (Aquinas, ST I.3).
      ?

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    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Process theology (Whitehead, Griffin) holds that God has a consequent nature that genuinely receives and feels the world's suffering as divine compassion.
      ?

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    • 2.Divine feeling of creaturely pain is not numerically identical to creaturely pain but is an empathetic prehension that transforms suffering into redemptive experience.
      ?

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    • 3.God exemplifying pain in this analogical, non-identical sense satisfies the grounding requirement without making God a patient of brute unintelligible suffering.
      ?

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    Reasons Against

    1 perspective
    Reason against
    ?
    • 1.Pain is a real property, not a mere absence.
      ?

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    • 2.God is the ground of all reality.
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    • 3.The ground of all reality must exemplify every real property.
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    Topics

    Divine AttributesAgainst an attribute of God

    Notable Defenders

    Augustineancient
    Augustineancientconfessions about the pears
    Plotinusancient
    Allen WoodcontemporaryWood 2010
    Anthony AppiahcontemporaryAppiah 1986
    BhattacharjeecontemporaryBhattacharjee 2018
    Claudia CardcontemporaryCard 2010
    Hannah ArendtcontemporaryArendt 1963; letter to Karl Jaspers, March 1951
    Hannah Arendtcontemporary
    Hannah ArendtcontemporaryArendt 1951
    Ibram X. KendicontemporaryKendi 2019
    Johnstoncontemporaryforthcoming
    Karl Jasperscontemporary
    Karl JasperscontemporaryJaspers 1947 [1958: 532]
    MartincontemporaryMartin & Watkins 2019
    Michael J. MurraycontemporaryMurray 2008
    MurphycontemporaryMurphy 2017
    Richard BernsteincontemporaryBernstein 2002
    Richard RothsteincontemporaryRothstein 2017
    Robert Merrihew AdamscontemporaryR. Adams 1999
    Thomas E. HillcontemporaryHill 1983
    WatkinscontemporaryMartin & Watkins 2019
    AnselmmedievalDe Casu Diaboli, vol.1
    Thomas Aquinasmedieval
    F.W.J. SchellingmodernSchelling 1809 [1936: 59]
    Friedrich NietzschemodernPrideaux 2018
    Fyodor DostoyevskymodernNotes from the Underground (1864)
    G.W. LeibnizmodernLeibniz 1677 [1969: 177]
    Immanuel Kantmodern
    Immanuel Kantmodern
    Immanuel KantmodernKant 1793 [AK 6:43; 1998: 64]
    Immanuel Kantmodern
    Immanuel Kantmodern
    Immanuel KantmodernReferenced as the Prussian philosopher who coined 'radical evil'
    Immanuel KantmodernReligion within the Bounds of Reason Alone (1793)
    Immanuel KantmodernKant's concept of radical evil (Hang zum Bösen)
    Nicolas MalebranchemodernMalebranche 1674–5 [1997: 348 and 392]

    Connections

    1 topic

    Natural Theology3 linked

    Related

    Classical theism holds that God is ipsum esse subsistens — the pure act of being...Divine feeling of creaturely pain is not numerically identical to creaturely pai...God exemplifying pain in this analogical, non-identical sense satisfies the grou...God is the ground of all reality.

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: evil-kinds-origins
    View source passageHide passage
    Although such pain is a “perfection” and thus a real property, for Leibniz, it still involves a kind of weakness or imperfection in the person who has it, and so God cannot, in the end, exemplify this “perfection”. Rather, God’s possession of maximal pleasure is somehow sufficient to ground the “reality” that is found in both pleasure and pain (Leibniz 1677 [1969: 177]). This seems fishy, and other philosophers argue against Leibniz that if pain is a real property (rather than a mere absence), t
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    +5 moreShow less
    Pain is a real property, not a mere absence.Pain, insofar as it involves awareness of privation, presupposes a gap between a...Process theology (Whitehead, Griffin) holds that God has a consequent nature tha...The ground of all reality must exemplify every real property.Therefore God cannot exemplify pain without contradicting the classical doctrine...

    Similar

    God cannot exemplify pain, despite pain being a real property.86%Scripture represents the wicked's punishment to imply sensible misery:...77%God's possession of maximal pleasure is sufficient to ground the reali...73%Such a punishment is against the mercy of God70%
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    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (2 for, 1 against)
    Edits
    1 edit