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    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that If ECT is true, then it is not that God will make all things new

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.ECT has evil and suffering exist forever beside God
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If evil and suffering exist forever beside God, then God will not make evil and suffering new
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.If the above is true, then God will not make evil and suffering new
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.In Revelation 21:5, 'making all things new' entails a universal ontological renewal encompassing the totality of creation.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.ECT posits a realm of permanent suffering existing outside this renewal, constituting an unredeemed remainder in the final state.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.A creation containing an unredeemed remainder cannot coherently be described as having been made entirely new.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Irenaeus and later Moltmann argue eschatological completion requires the recapitulation of all things under Christ's lordship.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Permanent hell in ECT establishes a domain perpetually beyond recapitulation, resisting Christ's final lordship described in 1 Corinthians 15:28.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Any final state where God is not 'all in all' is logically incompatible with the claim that God has made all things new.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.