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    Carmelics

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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Home/Original/inverse
    See Original
    Inverse View

    It is not the case that Judith 16:17 supports ECT

    ?Set your confidence on the premises below to see your aggregate.

    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
    ?
    • It is not that Judith 16:17 gives any strong support of ECT
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • If the above is true, then it is not that Judith 16:17 supports ECT
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Judith 16:17 states the Lord will take vengeance on enemies by putting fire and worms in their flesh, and they shall weep and feel pain forever.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.The phrase 'feel pain forever' (eis ton aiona) in the Septuagint consistently denotes unending duration, not mere annihilation or temporary suffering.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.A text affirming unending conscious pain directly entails ECT, regardless of whether that support is deemed 'strong' by critics.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.The objections concede only that Judith 16:17 gives no 'strong' support, which is compatible with its providing genuine, if modest, support for ECT.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Demetrius Trakatellis and other patristic scholars note that deuterocanonical texts like Judith shaped early Christian eschatology, lending them evidential weight.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Even partial or modest textual support for ECT from Judith 16:17 is sufficient to defeat the claim that the verse does not support ECT at all.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

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