Skip to content
Carmelics
TopicsThinkersChangesContributorsLoading account…

    Carmelics

    A reasoning platform. Break down any belief into clear reasons, explore both sides, and weigh the evidence honestly.

    Navigate

    • Topics
    • Search
    • Recent Changes
    • Contribute
    • How It Works
    • Glossary
    • Thinkers
    • Contributors
    • About
    • Statistics
    • Terms
    • Privacy

    Database

    Statements
    —
    Perspectives
    —
    Topics
    —

    Press ? for keyboard shortcuts

    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
    Statements
    321,452
    Perspectives
    108,905
    Topics
    42
    Poetry and rhetoric belong to the beautiful sciences (bel... — Carmelics
    Home/Aesthetics
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Poetry and rhetoric belong to the beautiful sciences (belles lettres) rather than the fine arts.

    Aesthetics
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.The fine arts employ natural signs; the beautiful sciences employ arbitrary or conventional signs.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.Poetry and rhetoric convey their content by artificial (arbitrary/conventional) signs.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Arbitrary signs have nothing in common by nature with the designated subject matter but are assumed as signs by convention.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Poetry achieves its aesthetic effects through the sonic and rhythmic qualities of language, which are natural (non-arbitrary) sensory phenomena.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.When signs produce pleasure through their material form rather than their conventional meaning, they function as natural signs for the purposes of aesthetic classification.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Therefore, poetry's medium is not purely conventional, and the fine arts / beautiful sciences distinction does not cleanly exclude it from the former category.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Lessing's Laocoon (1766) demonstrates that poetry uniquely represents temporal sequences of action, a capacity grounded in the natural structure of human cognition, not convention.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 2.If a medium's representational power is grounded in universal cognitive structure rather than social agreement, that medium employs something functionally equivalent to natural signs.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    • 3.Classifying poetry under 'beautiful sciences' solely on the basis of linguistic arbitrariness conflates the arbitrariness of the lexical sign with the non-arbitrary cognitive effects of poetic form.
      ?

      Think about whether this reason is strong or weak

    Sign in or register to share your perspective on this statement.

    Next step

    Based on where you are in your exploration

    Strongest counterpoint
    Explore the most compelling reason on the other side.

    Topics

    Aesthetics

    Connections

    1 topic

    Philosophy of Language3 linked

    Related

    Arbitrary signs have nothing in common by nature with the designated subject mat...Classifying poetry under 'beautiful sciences' solely on the basis of linguistic ...If a medium's representational power is grounded in universal cognitive structur...Lessing's Laocoon (1766) demonstrates that poetry uniquely represents temporal s...
    +5 moreShow less
    Poetry achieves its aesthetic effects through the sonic and rhythmic qualities o...Poetry and rhetoric convey their content by artificial (arbitrary/conventional) ...The fine arts employ natural signs; the beautiful sciences employ arbitrary or c...Therefore, poetry's medium is not purely conventional, and the fine arts / beaut...When signs produce pleasure through their material form rather than their conven...

    Similar

    Poetry and rhetoric are distinct from one another among the belles let...87%The fine arts employ natural signs; the beautiful sciences employ arbi...75%Non-linguistic arts do (at least sometimes) express meanings and thoug...74%The fine arts (painting, sculpture, music, dance, architecture) employ...74%

    Source

    AI-extracted1/3 agreementValid
    SEP: aesthetics-18th-german
    View source passageHide passage
    Mendelssohn concludes the essay on the “Main Principles of the Fine Arts and Sciences” with a brief but pregnant division of the arts. The basis of his division is a distinction between “natural” and “arbitrary” signs, which has precedents in Du Bos, in Leibniz and Wolff, and beyond all of them in St. Augustine. Signs are natural “if the combination of the subject matter signified is grounded in the very properties of what is designated,” as smoke is a natural product of fire or “The passions ar
    Extraction notes

    Validity: Extracted via Max plan + API grounding/validity checks

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit