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    LoyalLoyalJusticeJustice
    Made withinDC&Austin
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    321,452
    Perspectives
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    42
    Eternal Conscious Torment is the true Hell — Carmelics
    Home/Eternal Conscious Torment
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    Eternal Conscious Torment is the true Hell

    Eternal Conscious Torment
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    2 reasons for
    8 reasons against

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    Reasons For

    2 perspectives
    Reason for 1 of 2
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    • 1.Human freedom, as defended by Alvin Plantinga's libertarian free will theodicy, entails the genuine capacity to permanently reject God.
      ?

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    • 2.A love that coerces ultimate acceptance is not love but domination, making forced reconciliation incompatible with God's loving nature.
      ?

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    • 3.ECT, on this view, is not God's infliction of suffering but the self-chosen consequence of an irrevocable free rejection of the Good itself.
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    Reason for 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Jonathan Edwards and Thomas Aquinas both argue that sin against an infinite Good warrants an infinite consequence, grounding proportional justice in ECT.
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    • 2.The beatific vision for the saved requires a settled, permanent metaphysical order, which C.S. Lewis's 'The Great Divorce' illustrates as incompatible with ongoing cosmic revision.
      ?

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    • 3.If God making all things new applies only to the redeemed order, Objections 3 and 5 commit the scope fallacy by universalizing a promise made to the redeemed community.
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    Reasons Against

    8 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 8
    ?
    • 1.if ECT is true, then it is not that God encompasses everything
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    • 2.God encompasses everything
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    • 3.If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is true
      ?

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    Reason against 2 of 8
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    • 1.If ECT is true, then God is evil
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    • 2.God is not evil
      ?

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    • 3.If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is true
      ?

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    Reason against 3 of 8
    ?
    • 1.If ECT is true, then it is not that God will make all things new
      ?

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    • 2.God will make all things new
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    • 3.If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is true
      ?

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    Reason against 4 of 8
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    • 1.God will save everyone
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    • 2.ECT says that God will not save everyone
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    • 3.If the above is true, it is not that ECT is the true Hell
      ?

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    Reason against 5 of 8
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    • 1.ECT requires principles of justice
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    • 2.Is is not that a principle of justice exists that supports ECT
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    • 3.If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is the true Hell
      ?

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    Reason against 6 of 8
    ?
    • 1.ECT is inconsistent with God's love
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    • 2.If ECT is inconsistent with God's love, then ECT is not the true Hell
      ?

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    Reason against 7 of 8
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    • 1.ECT is inconsistent with the justice of God
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    • 2.If ECT is inconsistent with the justice of God, it is not that ECT is the true Hell
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    Reason against 8 of 8
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    • 1.Everyone will eventually accept salvation
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    • 2.If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is the true Hell
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    Topics

    Eternal Conscious Torment

    Connections

    4 topics

    Against an aspect of God9 linkedAgainst a future action of God6 linkedAnnihilation2 linkedAgainst a future action of God1 linked

    Related

    A love that coerces ultimate acceptance is not love but domination, making force...ECT is inconsistent with God's loveECT is inconsistent with the justice of GodECT requires principles of justice
    +20 moreShow less
    ECT says that God will not save everyoneECT, on this view, is not God's infliction of suffering but the self-chosen cons...Everyone will eventually accept salvationGod encompasses everything

    Similar

    If the above is true, ECT is the true Hell93%If the above is true, then ECT is the true Hell91%If the above is true, it is not that ECT is the true Hell90%If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is the true Hell89%

    Source

    Mindmap

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    10 (2 for, 8 against)
    Edits
    1 edit
    Notes

    <html> <head> </head> <body> <p> Interestingly, a lot of arguments against Hell are actually against the eternality of Hell--an argument that is (mostly) unique to ECT: thus, instead of putting them as a rebuttal to Hell itself, it is best that they are moved here (users, even submitters, will find things like this and move them themselves. On the other thread, "Hell exists," Hell would simply be defined as something like "a place after death for at least some people to be damned to by some Being or Force." </p> </body> </html>

    God is not evil
    God will make all things new
    God will save everyone
    Human freedom, as defended by Alvin Plantinga's libertarian free will theodicy, ...
    If ECT is inconsistent with God's love, then ECT is not the true Hell
    If ECT is inconsistent with the justice of God, it is not that ECT is the true H...
    If ECT is true, then God is evil
    If ECT is true, then it is not that God will make all things new
    If God making all things new applies only to the redeemed order, Objections 3 an...
    If the above is true, it is not that ECT is the true Hell
    If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is the true Hell
    If the above is true, then it is not that ECT is true
    Is is not that a principle of justice exists that supports ECT
    Jonathan Edwards and Thomas Aquinas both argue that sin against an infinite Good...
    The beatific vision for the saved requires a settled, permanent metaphysical ord...
    if ECT is true, then it is not that God encompasses everything