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    The Father and the Son are numerically distinct (non-iden... — Carmelics
    Home/Trinity
    HistoryEditSee Inverse

    The Father and the Son are numerically distinct (non-identical).

    Trinity
    ?Rate how convincing each reason is below to see the overall strength.
    1 reason for
    2 reasons against

    Reasons For

    1 perspective
    Reason for
    ?
    • 1.Divine love is a kind of charity of friendship.
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    • 2.In a charity of friendship, lover and beloved cannot be numerically identical.
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    • 3.The Father loves the Son.
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    Reasons Against

    2 perspectives
    Reason against 1 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Numerical identity admits of degrees or is relative to sortal kinds, so 'numerically distinct' is not an absolute binary relation.
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    • 2.The Father and Son share a single divine substance (homoousios), which on relative identity accounts makes them the same God while distinct persons.
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    • 3.If numerical identity is sortal-relative, the Father and Son can be the same God yet distinct persons without contradiction, undermining the premise that they are simply 'non-identical'.
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    Reason against 2 of 2
    ?
    • 1.Augustine's psychological analogy models the Trinity on a single mind whose memory, understanding, and will are genuinely distinct yet constitute one numerically identical subject.
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    • 2.If intra-mental faculties of one mind can instantiate the lover-beloved relation (as in the mind loving its own understanding), numerical identity of lover and beloved is not strictly impossible.
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    • 3.Therefore, the inference from divine friendship-love to numerical distinctness of Father and Son does not follow, since reflexive love within a single numerically identical being is conceivable.
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    Trinity

    Related

    Augustine's psychological analogy models the Trinity on a single mind whose memo...Divine love is a kind of charity of friendship.If intra-mental faculties of one mind can instantiate the lover-beloved relation...If numerical identity is sortal-relative, the Father and Son can be the same God...
    +5 moreShow less
    In a charity of friendship, lover and beloved cannot be numerically identical.Numerical identity admits of degrees or is relative to sortal kinds, so 'numeric...The Father and Son share a single divine substance (homoousios), which on relati...The Father loves the Son.Therefore, the inference from divine friendship-love to numerical distinctness o...

    Similar

    The Father and the Son are really distinct and not really the same.84%The three Persons of the Trinity are numerically the same without bein...84%Ideas are really identical with the Divine Nature.82%Any account of the Trinity that treats the Persons as numerically iden...82%

    Source

    AI-extracted2/3 agreementValid
    SEP: trinity
    Koons
    View source passageHide passage
    Divine love doesn’t imply further Persons because it’s the same relational property as divine self-knowing. God-as-knower isn’t numerically the same as God-as-known because of the essential asymmetry of the knowing relation (ibid.). Divine love, Koons says, is a kind of charity of friendship; thus, lover and beloved can’t be numerically identical. So if the Father loves the Son, this implies that they are numerically distinct (non-identical). It also implies that they are really distinct and not really the same. In specifying what he means by real distinctness Koons writes,
    Extraction notes

    Validity: The passage explicitly states that divine love is a charity of friendship, that lover and beloved can't be numerically identical, and that the Father loves the Son, from which it concludes they are numerically distinct (non-identical).

    Confidence: Clearly stated argument in the text.

    Details

    Type
    claim
    Perspectives
    3 (1 for, 2 against)
    Edits
    1 edit